MBA Quant Experience

Lucia Marquez writes about Wharton's pre-term program in this student diary blog entry:

During pre-term you can opt to take classes to refresh your memory in statistics, accounting and microeconomics. The refresher courses are aimed at those who have seen the material before and want to take a test to waive out of the core courses. If the material is new, you can take the introductory course to give you the fundamentals so you can hit the ground running once September rolls around. There is also the math test that everyone has to pass.

A few weeks later she writes about the accelerated pace of the first term:

It’s been only three weeks and we have mid-quarter exams already. The summer and pre-term really lulled me into believing that the pace would only be turned up a little more and that everything wouldn’t be as crazy as they made it sound when you came to visit during welcome weekend….No wonder I felt like I got hit by a truck during the first two weeks.

I was in complete survival mode. We got emails from professors the weekend before “real” school started, reminding us that we had homework posted on the internet that we needed to have done on the first day of class. I was doing only what needed to be turned in and reading the basics just in case I got called on in class.

Chad Troutwine, Yale MBA and founder of Veritas Prep, made the following comments about the depth of prior experience of fellow students in a podcast over at MBA Podcaster about Words of Advice from Recent MBA Grads:

I underestimated how hard some of my classmates really worked, but I really underestimated the depth of their background. When someone starts a MBA program they will be surrounded by people who have been working as investment bankers, people at top consultancies for the last several years. Much of the work will be very easy for those students. For those of us who came from very different kind of career path, in my case it was as an entrepreneur and real estate developer I was all of the sudden surrounded by people who had a leg up on me and my other classmates. We had to work a little bit harder to compensate for it but it can be done.

I just read an article in Stanford Magazine that seems on point to the distinction between students who thrive and others who struggle in the crucible of the MBA first year.  The article describes work by psychology professor Carol Dweck, spelled out in more detail in her recent book Mindset: The New Psychology of Success.

It resonates with my experiences being a grad student and more recently observing MBA students as articulated in two of my 8 MBA Quant Themes from the Major Posts links on the right: #3 Know Thyself: Confidence is King and #8 Quant Struggles are Emotional.  The students who struggle most are not necessarily those who are the least talented or even those with the worst objective performance.   Those who thrive seem to have a different mindset.

You finally achieve your way into an elite MBA program and the big issue is how you deal with challenges and peers in this setting.  Do you have a fragile performance-oriented mindset focused on outcomes driven by inate talent or do you have a robust mastery-oriented mindset focused on improvement driven by effort?  The article, and presumably the book, which I haven't read yet, argue persuasively that the learning-oriented mindset is a more effective route to success in challenging environments.  Best of all, it can be learned.

Here is an excerpt from the article:

[Carol Dweck collaborated] with then-graduate student Carol Diener to have children “think out loud” as they faced problem-solving tasks, some too difficult for them. The big surprise: some of the children who put forth lots of effort didn’t make attributions at all. These children didn’t think they were failing. Diener puts it this way: “Failure is information—we label it failure, but it’s more like, ‘This didn’t work, I’m a problem solver, and I’ll try something else.’” During one unforgettable moment, one boy—something of a poster child for the mastery-oriented type—faced his first stumper by pulling up his chair, rubbing his hands together, smacking his lips and announcing, “I love a challenge.”

Such zest for challenge helped explain why other capable students thought they lacked ability just because they’d hit a setback. Common sense suggests that ability inspires self-confidence. And it does for a while—so long as the going is easy. But setbacks change everything. Dweck realized—and, with colleague Elaine Elliott soon demonstrated—that the difference lay in the kids’ goals. “The mastery-oriented children are really hell-bent on learning something,” Dweck says, and “learning goals” inspire a different chain of thoughts and behaviors than “performance goals.”

Students for whom performance is paramount want to look smart even if it means not learning a thing in the process. For them, each task is a challenge to their self-image, and each setback becomes a personal threat. So they pursue only activities at which they’re sure to shine—and avoid the sorts of experiences necessary to grow and flourish in any endeavor. Students with learning goals, on the other hand, take necessary risks and don’t worry about failure because each mistake becomes a chance to learn. Dweck’s insight launched a new field of educational psychology—achievement goal theory.

The transcript for the MIT Sloan quant experience online chat is now available here.

Thanks to our MIT Sloan guests Maura Herson, Associate Director of MBA Student Affairs, Jeri Seidman, who teaches MIT Sloan's pre-term accounting course, and first-year MIT Sloan students Susan Hanemann Rogol and John Clingan.  Linda Abraham of Accepted.com and I moderated the chat.

I'll post some pertinent excerpts shortly but, for now, read the whole thing if you want to understand more about pre-term quant prep options and the quant demands of the first-year core curriculum, which at MIT is squeezed into a single semester.

Here are some comments from a Tuck first year, who looks back at the fall and winter terms.

Given my background (Chemistry Undergrad followed by pharmaceutical manufacturing) I will try to describe my approach and what I would do differently.

Pandora's Box. Tuck sends a big box of pre work material, to me the box was frightening and just looking at it filled me with fear.  I decided that because accounting was first and the book seemed reasonable I would start with it.  The accounting book is pretty self explanatory and a good warm up. 

Hindsight is 20/20. What I wish I had done sooner was back up what I had learned by reading the other accounting/finance material.  I looked at MBA Math too late, and looking back the content is really good.  I would recommend that for anyone coming from a non quant or non business background to look at their MBA syllabus and at the very least do the MBA Math sections that apply to the first term. For me those would have been accounting and working with spreadsheets (decision science). 

You, Yes You! The first term is so overwhelming that any preparation you do up front will be worth it.  If you are like I was and ignoring the pre- work material then you are exactly the person who should be doing it!

Searching for Elusive First Year Equilibrium. One of the sections that I did from MBA Math was economics.  Being familiar with the basics such as supply and demand curves and how they shift provided me with a solid foundation, if you haven’t got it by the first micro econ class you will be left behind.

Finance Basics Not Covered in Class. The most fundamental thing I learned at math camp was understanding the concept of NPV & perpetuities and being able to apply it.  That stuff was never really taught in class and I was so glad I had gotten to grips with it before hand.

Algebra Algebra Algebra. Algebra was not a problem for me but do make sure you are comfortable manipulating equations and substituting variables as you will do this all the time.

Listen Up, Becoming a Student Again is Tough. One last thing, it is actually worth listening to the MBA Math lectures and practice learning from lectures.  MBA lectures will be more interactive but it is a skill to listen and process information for any significant period of time.

From conversations with administrators at Cornell's Johnson School, which recently purchased subscriptions for all incoming students to the MBA Math quantitative preparation course, there is no need for calculus in the first year MBA curriculum.

I received the following response from a first year at Georgetown's McDonough School:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

Georgetown does not emphasize a need to brush up on calculus. In fact, it used to be a prerequisite but in the last couple of years they have discontinued that requirement.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

The campus provides Statistics, Accounting and Excel but no Calculus pre-term courses.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

I have never taken a calculus class and I have been doing OK in my classes. I remember a few times that my stats, econ and finance professors would say, “this is basic calculus that everyone should know” but I would just learn whatever calculus functions were necessary for that particular aspect of class.

4. If yes to some of the above, would you recommend that prospective students interested in your program brush up on calculus before starting or just refresh their memories on the fly during their coursework?  If you suggest advance prep, would you give it low, medium, or high priority relative to other pre-MBA preparation needs (e.g., spreadsheets, accounting, finance basics).

I wish I had taken a calculus class prior to coming to school as it would have given me more confidence throughout my course work. I do agree with one of the other responses that algebra is a higher priority than calculus.

I received the following response from a second year at London Business School:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

I don't remember any specific suggestion on this. I know the program incorporated accounting and statistics as core courses rather than pre-term teaching 2 years ago.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

Not that I know of.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

I have seen references on calculus in many quant subjects (Finance/Operations/Marketing etc.) but I never had to use it. It was more of a reference on how to arrive to a certain formula. I am not sure if this depends on my focus (more marketing and strategy in the second year).

4. If yes to some of the above, would you recommend that prospective students interested in your program brush up on calculus before starting or just refresh their memories on the fly during their coursework?  If you suggest advance prep, would you give it low, medium, or high priority relative to other pre-MBA preparation needs (e.g., spreadsheets, accounting, finance basics).

I think that a brush up can be useful, but with a lower priority than spreadsheets, accounting and finance basics.

I received the following response from a student soon to enter the Executive MBA program at Duke's Fuqua School:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

Yes.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

No, but there are other recommendations – details here.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

Not there yet.

Since I teach the pre-term math camp at Tuck, I'll state that the need is minimal.  I take 15 minutes to explain what problem calculus helps you to solve (e.g., what is the maximum profit?) and to remind students how to take the derivative of a polynomial. This coverage is included in the MBA Math course. Students use this minimally for marginal analysis in microeconomics and some second-year teaching assistants report that it comes up again minimally in finance for bond yields.

Let me add a second-year Tuck student's perspective:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

Tuck does not emphasize a need to brush up on calculus.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

I don’t recall calculus pre-term teaching as a part of the Tuck pre-term program. [Peter: I didn't make a lasting impression in my 15 minutes!!]

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

I have not used calculus extensively. I used my past strength in math to understand some of the micro-economic concepts taught using calculus but the class was not taught using a calculus based method.

4. If yes to some of the above, would you recommend that prospective students interested in your program brush up on calculus before starting or just refresh their memories on the fly during their coursework?  If you suggest advance prep, would you give it low, medium, or high priority relative to other pre-MBA preparation needs (e.g., spreadsheets, accounting, finance basics).

I suggest for students who did not take math in undergrad to refresh all of their math skills. I think that algebra is more important than calculus. Algebra is at a high priority and calculus is at a medium priority for students that fit into this category.

I received the following response from a first year who started the Columbia accelerated program in January:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

Yes.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

A little bit about derivatives was introduced at the pre-course math session.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

Yes, in Microeconomics.

4. If yes to some of the above, would you recommend that prospective students interested in your program brush up on calculus before starting or just refresh their memories on the fly during their coursework?  If you suggest advance prep, would you give it low, medium, or high priority relative to other pre-MBA preparation needs (e.g., spreadsheets, accounting, finance basics).

I think the calculus content is not as challenging as spreadsheets. You'd better get more versed in spreadsheet before coming to the campus.

I received the following response from a first year at Indiana's Kelley School:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

The official answer: While calculus is not required for admission, we've found that an understanding of analytical thinking and quantitative tools has a significant influence on success in the program. While we expect students to be competent in algebra, comfortable with the use of spreadsheets, and have basic knowledge of statistics, there are no prerequisites. Students from all academic backgrounds are welcome to apply.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

Not that I'm aware of.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

No, I thought we might see it in economics; however Kelley's perspective is to teach the class more from a managerial economics perspective. When I visited UNC they used calculus in their economics core class.

4. If yes to some of the above, would you recommend that prospective students interested in your program brush up on calculus before starting or just refresh their memories on the fly during their coursework?  If you suggest advance prep, would you give it low, medium, or high priority relative to other pre-MBA preparation needs (e.g., spreadsheets, accounting, finance basics).

I  took a business calculus course the semester immediately prior to graduate school and I found it be very helpful. A solid accounting and finance foundation is far more important; however I would take a calculus course if you have time to do so (medium low priority). My advice regarding spreadsheet preparation is to increase your speed and familiarity through use of shortcut keys / techniques. Many of the professors move quickly and you don't want to fall behind during class.

I received responses from two current students at MIT Sloan:

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

Sloan assumes that you will be ready to go on all quantitative subjects when you start the program, though they do provide four days of pre-term review sessions.

Newly admitted students are advised to brush up on calculus, accounting and micro economics

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

Sloan has four days of pre-term review but I don't think it included any calculus.

There is a refresher class including calculus, statistics and accounting during pre-term done on campus.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

Yes, we used it in economics and in statistics.

Calculus was used briefly in Micro Economics (specifically using the 1st derivative of a function).

4. If yes to some of the above, would you recommend that prospective students interested in your program brush up on calculus before starting or just refresh their memories on the fly during their coursework?  If you suggest advance prep, would you give it low, medium, or high priority relative to other pre-MBA preparation needs (e.g., spreadsheets, accounting, finance basics).

Personally I had never taken calculus before, so definitely needed to brush up--however I don't know how advanced the calculus was for someone who was familiar with the subject. For me finance and calculus were definitely the most important things to review, but I already had plenty of familiarity with spreadsheets and accounting.

I do suggest that prospective students brush up on calculus and algebra as well as accounting and finance. Here at MIT Sloan the curriculum is such that the first semester is intense with all the core requirements, hence waiting to refresh ones’ memory is relative depending on their academic backgrounds and length of time out of school. I would suggest giving MBA Math a high priority as it does not hurt to be overly prepared!

The answer from a first year at Harvard Business School is a resounding NO.

1. Does your program suggest brushing up calculus skills before starting the first year?

No.

2. Does your program provide any calculus pre-term teaching?  If yes, is it done on campus?

No.

3. Have you used calculus in your MBA studies?  If yes, in what classes?

No. While some of the applications could have required calculus, the prof worked through the proofs for us, and told us to keep focus on the ‘big picture’ as opposed to the math.